HomeForumsNew guy to canoeing going on a long trip, HELP!

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September 9, 2011 at 4:48 pm #31243

ashlandbill

I am a long distance traveler by bicycle and foot and would like to canoe the Missouri this next spring/summer.  Need lots of help.  Many, many years ago in my old Grumman I canoed the upper Delawre and then the Swanee.  Did not know what I was doing but had wonderful journies.  

I camp about 100 nights a year so that part I can learn from watching the guy in the looking glass.  What I do not know is canoes.  In my area the shops all carry kayaks and know little about canoes.  I am reading quite a bit, both about the boats and the river but want non commerical help.  I do not fit well in a kayak because of old war injuries.  I have tried many different types byt find a canoe is my best bet.

Anyone interested in helping a old man find a new adventure?  I can learn new tricks, just takes a little more time.

 

Bill

September 10, 2011 at 9:26 am #31244

paddleplacid

Don’t consume alcohol before going on the water.  Waterproof everything remembering that humidity is always a factor near water, and follow the rule that whatever goes into a canoe should either float or fit into a floating case.  Buy a Prospector model canoe which most manufacturers make, Prospectors are built for big loads and big waves, and if you canoe the parts of the Mississsippi which carry commercial traffic you will meet BIG waves from what I’ve read from others who have paddled it.  Build, have built, or buy good watertight wannigans and strap them to your yoke or thwarts .. if you have lots of money have the wannigans built from marine plywood to make them lightweight and super strong; but if time constraints are factors barrel packs are very comfortable to use, and are said to be watertight, although I haven’t used mine enough to verify that.  Don’t use a head tump if you portage as it restricts head movement and puts too much pressure on your neck.  Buy a GOOD PFD/Lifejacket with pockets and put emergency stuff in the pockets. Don’t paddle at night where there is power boat traffic.  If you load your canoe carefully for low centre of gravity you can sit high and comfortable .. I add a cushion to my seat so I can paddle with my knees bent at right angles.  Buy a large-bladed paddle which will decrease the number of strokes required to paddle a specific distance.  Kayaks are difficult to load and unload and offer only one sitting posture so there are three great reasons not to use one. Buy a bright cololur canoe, PFD and hat for vivibilty to power boaters.  You can visit my Facebook profile page to view some of my equipment, inlcuding my cook box-wannigan which transports the stove already set up for use, as well as pots, pans and some of my food.   Don’t allow yourself to become tired or you can easily take a bad tumble by tripping on the gunwale getting in or out of the canoe .. and our age is a factor in tripping as well, I’m 64 and get stiff after sitting awhile paddling, and have to exit my canoe slowly.  Make safety your top priority .. and that includes NOT heeling your canoe over ‘Omering’ style while straight-line paddling .. a good thread for you to read is the Omering/so-called ‘Canadian Style’ thread in this forum’s paddle techniques.  After you do the Mississippi, the Ottawa River in Canada is a great paddle, the old ‘Voyageur’ route is a great paddle, and many people have done western mountains to the Atlantic Ocean trips.  Bob Mosurinjohn 

September 10, 2011 at 9:56 am #31245

Always January (Randy)

Here’s a link to some possible boats, but this is not nearly a complete list.  If you pack lightly you can get away with a solo boat, but a tandem boat can also be paddled solo if you need more capacity (and versatility as it allows you to bring along a friend).  However, my paddling buddies call solo tripping in a tandem “not ideal”.  The more ideal setup would be to have a solo canoe for soloing and a tandem for ummmm…tandeming :-)

http://www.canoeing.com/canoes/river/

 

I agree with placid that the prospector model canoe is a good all-around tandem that can be solo’d.  I don’t go so far as to think it’s the end all canoe however.  If you are not planning on paddling any sort of rapids you can certainly get away with something that moves in a straight line more efficiently (the more rocker on the boat the better it turns, but the least efficient it goes straight).  The Mad River Explorer is a good comprimise boat, as is the Wenonah Aurora.  Bell makes some nice boats as well, but I’m not as familiar with their tandems. 

 

For solos, I really like the Bell Wildfire for river tripping and my Bell Traveller (pre-runner to the Bell Magic) is great for flatwater touring.  I don’t like the wenonah solo’s so much because they like to put those damn tractor seats in, which I hate.  I like the versatility to sit or kneel (or a combination of the two).

 

As for materials, they really have come a long way since the aluminum.  The royalex models can really take a beating and last a long time.  If you are more careful with your boat, and have more money to burn, kevlar and carbon fibre are super light weight, transmit power well as they are good and stiff, and can easily be portaged.  I have a fiberglass boat, a couple of royalex boats, and a kevlar solo boat.  They all work great, but of course the kevlar is easist to carry (something to certainly consider at an older age especially).  None of them transmit the cold and make all the racket that metal does.  Of course the advantage to aluminum is that you can leave them outsid and basically never worry about messing them up.  All others should be store inside or in the shade (always resting evenly on the gunwales).

 

The biggest suggestion I would make is to take advantage of instruction if it is available in your area.  We get people that have been paddling for years taking our Red Cross Canoeing classes and they are amazed at how much there is to learn in the way of proper technique.  Good habits of a vertical paddle, proper torso rotation, and only engaging the power to your knee (a bit further with a bent shaft) will translate into a more efficient stroke and less energy used.  If done correctly you really should be able to paddle all day and not feel exhausted at the end of it.

 

I’m not nearly as anal about waterproofing everything.  I have the absolutely must stay dry stuff, the “would be nice to stay dry stuff”, and the “hell it’ll dry eventually stuff”.  Most of the time I have my $2000 dollar camera setup sitting in my lap.  If the conditions make me nervous, I double dry bag it.

 

 

September 10, 2011 at 3:58 pm #31246

ashlandbill

Wow! Thanks for all the wonderful information.  A great start for me on the river of knowledge.  

I think I would like a canoe that is easy to paddle but small enough to portage with some ease.  Am I thinking right to consider boats in the 35 to 45 pound range and about 14 to 16 foot long? I am going solo. I know that from cycling weight is not the major measure of preformace but is important.  The explorer looks a little heavey from my needs. The Bell Wildfire looks really good from the reviews.  Is it that good?

I do not have major amounts of money but feel that if the journey is going to be at least a couple of months then a few extra dollars on a good boat is a wise investment.  My thoughts now are to buy a used, reasonably priced canoe to learn with and then purchase a good touring boat when the time comes.  I was thinking of buying the “real” boat somewhere near the put in spot.  Thoughts?  

What should I beware of whne buying a used canoe?  Beyond leaks and breaks of course.

Keeping things dry is also a concern when long distance cycling.  Although I am not normally riding in a river (that has occured) I use dry bags.  I had not heard of a winigen, but after looking it up they do seem a good idea. My question would be about portage.  The Missouri has 6 dams and the Great Falls to portage around.  Carring the canoe and all my gear says to me Keep It Light!  When cycle touring in the US I normall carry about 50 pounds including repiar parts.  Is that about right for canoeing or should I consider more stuff?

 

My definition of an expert is “A has been drip under pressure.”  EX-spurt

 

 

September 13, 2011 at 5:23 pm #31247

paddleplacid

Ashland ..

Weight of your gear will depend a lot about how much money you can spend, how much security and comfort you want, how much food and what food you will take, how often you can purchase groceries and fuel for your stove, etc, the same as bicycle touring.  Weight is not nearly the factor in canoe tripping as bicycling, although it can mean bulk and extra trips on a portage .. but I prefer the extra trip or trips to not having comfort and security. 

Those dams will probably be a challenging portage, and you can check out my wheeled canoe cart/kitchen wannigan on my facebook .. Bob Mosurinjohn .. I find the cart helpful even on portages through the woods because portage trails are generally well packed down, and portages around dams on the Mississippi will almost certainly be on paved or packed roads, good places for wheels which I’ve used often and with no shame whatever as I’m not a ‘purist’ who shuns technology.

Even lakes (Flatwater) with no current can turn into whitewater through sudden winds .. the Ottawa River blew up from windless dead flat calm in 20 seconds with no warning at all just after I landed and tied my canoe; and the Mississippi will probably carry the same risk along with the risk of huge waves from commercial traffic, so I would stick with a canoe designed for touring and whitewater together, which the Prospector is.  A Prospector tracks (straight lines) as well as it rides rapids and whitecaps, and I can paddle my loaded Prospector three strokes without needing to make a yaw-correction stroke.  A canoe with a semi-V hull seems the best all around shape.  Avoid external keels as they hang up on rocks and logs, and can also make for an unstable platform for loading and unloading, getting in and out of the canoe, etc.  With the symmetrical Prospector you turn it end-for-end, paddling from what is normally the bow seat.  Again, unless you want to spend a lot of money unnecessarily by buying two or three different canoes for different purposes, I would buy a 17′ Prospector as light as you can afford, that way you can pick up passengers or a wife along the way.  Some ’touring’ boats are asymmetrical, which means they are more difficult to paddle solo unless you paddle on your knees because you can’t end-for-end them as the bow section is longer with a different shape than the stern section.   Please remember that I’m not promoting a certain manufacturer by recommending Prospectors, as most manufacturers make them.  Some folks will say I’m wrong about recommending a 17 footer as 16 footers are plenty of canoe, but I’ve used a 16 footer on all my trips, and it just wouldn’t do for two people with a good load.

I strongly recommend you learn your canoeing in the boat you make the trip with, because characteristics can vary greatly. 

And buy a yoke with your canoe .. you’ll never regret it.

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