Tagged: canoe, Prospector, tandem, whitewater
This topic has 11 voices, contains 15 replies, and was last updated by 66 days ago.
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| Author | Posts |
| September 10, 2009 at 9:59 am #33016 | |
|
summerpaddler |
One intersting thing about the Nova Craft Prospector . . . I initially got the 16ft Prospector because I thought it would be an all-around boat that I could do whitewater tripping with that would allow me to take on some rapids but still paddle flatwater in between the rapids fairly well. I’ve greatly enjoyed paddling this boat in whitewater. It has good rocker (about 3 inches) and I’ve found it to be quite maneuverable for a non-dedicated whitewater boat. However, I’ve been very disappointed with the flatwater capabilities of the boat, especially when paddled empty. I’ve paddled lots of flatwater, but I can hardly make this canoe go straight when empty. Actually, it goes straight, but with the rocker the wind side-slips the boat and pushes it way off course, requiring tons of compensation and correction. I did greatly enjoy it on the whitewater, though, and will probably outfit it more specifically for that purpose. However, prior to a satisfactory performance on Class III water, I was actually considering selling the boat because it wasn’t the all-around canoe that I was expecting and just getting a whitewater tandem canoe. I am a little puzzled by everyone on these discussion pages who thinks that Prospectors are the greatest lake tripping canoes out there and that they are so fast. I wonder. . . have they not paddled a fast canoe or am I missing something? I’m used to paddling something like the Bell Northwind, Wenonah Sundowner, or Wenonah Spirit II and the occasional old Alumacraft. Any of them are hands down faster than my Nova Craft Prospector. I did not expect an all around canoe to perform as well as these other boats on flatwater, but it really doesn’t perform very well at all. Certainly not as well as the advertisements and other people on discussio boards say they do. It certainly tracks better than a dedicated WW boat, but that’s not saying much, really. Anyone have a comment for me? |
| September 10, 2009 at 10:52 am #33017 | |
|
James |
Summer- I’ve paddled mine around the lake a few times and if I had purchased it as a lake boat I’d want my money back. You’re right when you say it catches the wind and doesn’t track very well. I usually have mine loaded with a cooler and quite a bit more gear than anyone needs for an overnight or day trip. It seems to do much better on flat water when it has a couple hundred pounds of kit and paddlers in it.
In the first photo I have it heeled over canadian style without any gear. As you can see there’s a lot of boat out of the water to catch wind. However, paddling like this allows one to keep the boat moving in the right direction with minimal paddle input…still not fast though. The second photo illustrates how we usually paddle the boat. My wife weighs 109 lbs so I pack most of the gear up front to help trim the boat out. The area immediately in front of me is usually empty and the dog occupies the area between the yoke and rear thwart. While I have never weighed the gear I can guess it’s around 80 lbs with another 60 for the cooler plus me at 260. Throw in a 20 pound dog and we’re pushing 529 pounds. This settles the Prospector quite well and allows us to cross the flatwater sections pretty quickly.
Here I am soloing the boat for some photos. No real gear except the Yeti cooler which weighs a ton. You can still see that most of the stem of the canoe is out of the water. It is easy to turn on a dime though. I guess the real answer is that this boat is never going to be as fast as a kevlar Wenonah lake boat. |
| September 10, 2009 at 11:08 am #33018 | |
|
Dennis |
It sounds like you have made up your mind based on the type of paddling that you do and that is the way it should be. Canoes come in different sizes and shapes just like shoes. You can’t really expect one boat to excel at all tasks or for all canoeist to agree on which boat is best. Most people are going to talk up what they feel are the strong points of their boats while discounting the perceived flaws in others. Looking at specs doesn’t always help much either. I suspect that a lot of people have actually only paddled (on average) three different models of canoes and for very short periods of time, making any sort of comparison pretty superficial. |
| September 10, 2009 at 1:50 pm #33019 | |
|
crow |
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, Dennis. Not many of us have the chance to try out lots of different canoes, so our judgement is pretty superficial. I’ve recently bought a Bell Chestnut Prospector. The reasons for choosing this boat were: - I wanted a lighter boat than my old heavy polyethylene Ranger - I read lots of reviews and liked the sound of it - there was a used one for sale in excellent condition at a good price from a forum member - I liked the colour and the looks of it! (aesthetics do count, lol) So far I’m very happy with it. Goes best when tandem with lots of gear. Solo and unladen it can catch the wind a bit on lakes. Had it on rivers but only very placid ones so far. I’ve still got to give it a good long run though. I tend to use my Pack when solo, partly because I’m to lazy to hoist the Prospector on top of the car by myself.
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| July 6, 2010 at 2:15 am #33020 | |
|
lyn |
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| November 27, 2010 at 9:56 am #33021 | |
|
100mphcanoe |
One of the photos above shows the bow out of the water .. most people will put a rock or something else heavy in the bow to bring the bow down to resist wind and provide better tracking. Probably any keeless canoe paddled empty will be more difficult to paddle straight, but keels are problems in many ways. My Prospector has a semi-V hull which has always seemed an excellent compromise, tracts well, with good rocker it turns well, very stable .. when loaded for tripping I can stand up to stretch my legs in my Prospector, to take a photo, to scout ahead .. all with great safety. Mine is an Evergreen but the gunwales are dangerous as they have a sharp inside edge which cuts into ropes and skinned my nuckles when I dropped the canoe during a lift to overhead. I wouldn’t buy another 16 footer though, as even for solo tripping I carry a large load for safety and comfort and nutrition, and because I go for two month trips, and the extra foot would be welcome although what the canoe I have has done me excellent service. Prospectors aren’t ‘fast’ as they’re not designed for speed, but for safety and load capacity, although they are easy to paddle, not cumbersome, not clunky .. I will never buy any canoe but a Prospector. Also, anyone having trouble paddling a straight line should work on their stroke style, making sure the blade is 90 degrees to line of travel, and pulled back in a straight line to the line of travel .. this is far more important than shape of hull or style of paddle. Also, about ‘heeled over Canadian style’ .. I’m a Canadian and I paddle exclusively in Canada mostly on large, popular canoeing waters, and I’ve have never seen anyone paddle in this style as it makes the canoe easy to capsize through wind, waves, or error. I’ve only heard that paddling ’style’ called ‘Canadian style’ from non-Canadians. |
| April 26, 2011 at 9:11 am #33022 | |
|
paddleplacid |
“Canadian Style” heeled-over paddling is not Canadian Style (I speak as a 64 year-old born Canadian with 2,500 miles paddling in four of the past six years). I have never seen paddlers use that style which is very dangerous due to the tippy canoe factor, and the only people who call it ‘Canadian Style’ seem to be non-Canadians. I realize Bill Mason and others have been photographed paddling in this style, but if you saw the film of Mason being tossed instantly out of his canoe on Lake Superior, and having to swim for his life, barely making it to shore, you would reconsider heeling over for any reason. Mason was also photographed with his bow sticking up out of the water, another dangerous thing as wind can turn you end-for-end at the head of swift water. Mason was a bit of a maverick, and though I appreciate the man I don’t appreciate his safety ethic.
The ‘faster’ a canoe’s design the less stable it is in winds and waves .. and I’ve seen water go from windless flat calm to whitecaps in 20 seconds, so give me safety over supposed speed, which is much more a factor of a proper paddle stroke anyway. Prospector will be my only canoe model purchased. |
| April 27, 2011 at 11:58 am #33023 | |
|
Bryan Hansel |
Becky Mason actually calls it Canadian-style paddling and Omering. It’s also called canoe ballet. A more refined style is called Freestyle. Mason does clinics and has a really good how-to video that teaches Canadian-style paddling. There has been a lot of research and real time experience done in the intervening years since you were born which contradicts old advice. Practice has actually shown that it’s a safe method of travel, which lowers the center of gravity and makes the canoe more stable. |
| April 27, 2011 at 2:33 pm #33024 | |
|
Always January (Randy) |
Heeling a boat can actually be very advantageous, even in areas of safety. Particularly if you are paddling in swift moving water. Ferrying into the current and peeling out to go down river it is very important to heel the boat somewhat down river of the current. If you don’t you are much more likely to be flipped. I have learned this lesson a few times the hard way. Also, paddling a rockered boat it is much more efficient to paddle the “inside circle” by heeling the boat and approximating an arc towards your destination. Paddling in this fashion makes it possible to get to your destination using only powerful forward strokes with all the corrective and slowing pries or J-strokes eliminated. This is something I mainly use in my whitewater boat. As for sitting in the heeled, Canadian-style, or Omerig position, I don’t find it “tippy” or unstable at all. Your weight is at it’s lowest point possible as the curved side of the boat is down in the water. What you are doing is engaging the “secondary stability” of the boat which is actually a lot less tippy in non-flat bottom boats like a Prospector with a shallow arch bottom. I sit quite a bit lower than James is illustrating above, but he may have been setting up for a turn or something. I will give you that I don’t tend to paddle this way in the wind, for as you state it does present a bit of a sail (at least not to this degree though I will still often apply a slight heel solo). This is the style I use mostly for paddling an empty tandem canoe for pleasure on calm water. It’s amazing how manueverable the boat becomes and you can nimbly turn, slip, spin, and glide along. After all, canoeing is not just about getting from point A to point B and bringing a ton of gear with you. I like to get out there and then paddle for pleasure in the last light of the day (or the early morning and occasionally even in the moonlight). |
| April 27, 2011 at 2:38 pm #33025 | |
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Always January (Randy) |
Oh yeah, and about that video of Mason taking a spill in Lake Superior, he was not heeled over in that scene, and was more central to the boat with his body still as low as possible with his knees spread out to the sides of the canoe (a position he often used for whitewater canoeing). His going over had little to do with any degree of heel, and more to do with the fact he was paddling in very large waves (at least 7 to 8 footers if my memory is correct). He commented later that he was pushing himself too far trying to get good footage. |
| April 27, 2011 at 2:49 pm #33026 | |
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Always January (Randy) |
OK, last post on this I promise. Here is Canada’s own Kevin Callan paddling a little more eased up version that would be more appropriate in wind or longer travels. Notice that the boat is still heeled to his onside, that and he is kneeling in the center. Very stable position with a good blend of control and effiecency. I don’t think anybody is more “Canadian” than Kevin
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| April 28, 2011 at 10:58 am #33027 | |
|
paddleplacid |
More about heeling a canoe. To respond about my age .. I’m 64 but I started canoe tripping only in 2005. The following quote comes from Omer’s story .. He would kneel in the center of the canoe and lean far over the side of the canoe when no one was watching.” Omer was a young man not much more than a boy at that time, employed by professional canoeists who knew proper paddling techniques. Omer seems to have started a fad, for sure, although I repeat I have never seen heeling used on the water, but fads also are like following lemmings off a cliff. Also, we notice that in all the photos the heeled canoes are empty .. maybe heeling is a nice playtime thing when you can enjoy a dunking, but on a serious paddle it’s nothing but trouble. I saw the Mason movie, and the waves were, in my opinion only about two or three feet, and I’ve paddled for two hours in 4 & 5 footers .. if Mason was accustomed to paddling heeled his balance would be affected whether he was heeling or not. The proof is in the pudding though .. he flipped and almost died, and 60 Canadian paddlers die each year according to Red Cross stats, and most of them on lakes where wind and waves rise quickly .. so utmost stability is utomost surival. Like the song says, “It’s your life .. you’ll do what you wanna do.” |
| April 28, 2011 at 5:24 pm #33028 | |
|
paddleplacid |
I apoligize for the “Lemmings” comment in my post above. But .. safety seems not to have gained its rightful place in some paddlers’ techniques as witnessed by the photos of the paddler who is not wearing a lifejacket (Red Cross says 83% to 86% of canoe drowning victims had no lifejacket on.) Also .. the Bill Mason film .. Mason was paddling parallel to the waves when he should have been setting a good example and paddling straight to shore. I can’t understand examples as this except for the same reasons people try Cocaine or Heroin ’just this once’. I’ve seen the Ottawa River go from windless flat calm to Whitecaps in 20 seconds, and have heard from other canoeists having similar experiences on other bodies of water. Canoe bottom ON THE WATER not in the air is the only safe way to paddle. I hate losing paddling friends. Also, Kevin Callan in the photo is not paddling heeled over, his slight lean is the natural result of an empty canoe paddled solo .. if he had someone in the bow paddling on the other side the canoe would be level. |
| May 2, 2011 at 9:00 am #33029 | |
|
Dog_paddle |
Anyways…to get the topic back to the Prospector. I do think its a great “all around canoe” but doesnt perform great in any single category. I have a Nova Craft Prospector as well- at first I hated- now after several seasons of paddling it I really enjoy it. [IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/kayakerjsm/IMG_5792.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/kayakerjsm/IMG_5968.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/kayakerjsm/IMG_5790-1.jpg[/IMG]
————————– My Blog: The Wild Life: Wilderness Adventure & Lifestyle http://yellowstonedogsledding.blogspot.com |
| May 2, 2011 at 11:26 am #33030 | |
|
paddleplacid |
Nice to see paddlers wearing lifejackets! I would say Prospectors perform perfectly in the Canoe Tripping category .. Great in the rough water/whitewater category .. great in the load category .. great in stability .. and a properly paddled Prospector will beat a poorly paddled racing canoe to the finish line in a race .. but their bows have to be kept on the water for proper functioning in any category except ‘windblown’. |
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